Podcast: Value Creation, Culture, and the Future of Middle-Market PE

[00:00:03] Eric Bommer I think it's important for people, and especially young people, to be put into environments where they're uncomfortable. Going to a new place, having to prove yourself. I didn't get into it, but I actually started off with a team in London. I think you learn some good life lessons from putting yourself into a situation where it's not comfortable.

[00:00:24] Justin Abelow I'm Justin Abelow from the Financial Sponsors Group, and you're listening to Capital Revolution. Today, I'm joined by Eric Bommer, Co-Managing Partner at Sentinel Capital Partners. Eric has spent approximately three decades investing in and partnering with middle market companies, helping management teams scale businesses through growth, operational improvement, and strategic acquisitions. I've known Eric for over 40 years, I've had the opportunity to work with him across a wide range of transactions, And I'm very excited for this conversation today. We'll explore how middle-market private equity continues to evolve, how investors are thinking about value creation in a more demanding and disciplined market, and what founders, executives, and deal professionals should be preparing for as we head into 2026. Thank you for joining us today. I think the right place to start is with the beginning, and that's really, I think, with you and your history. And I've always been curious how a nice guy from upstate New York found his way into finance.

[00:01:34] Eric Bommer Justin, thanks for having me. I grew up in a small town in Northern New York State. As I got older, I actually was having some success as a hockey player, and started to attract some interest from some coaches who suggested that I should go play in the New England Prep School League. Started to look at some of those schools, my parents, who had held the bar pretty high on the academic front and ended up at the Hotchkiss School in Connecticut, which is where I met you, among others. And frankly, when I left to go to Hotchkiss, I never imagined that I would go to Brown, but I ended up doing that. And it was a phenomenal experience. Had a great time and made some great friends. And frankly, unlike today, I really didn't spend a lot of time trying to figure out what I was going to do while I was a student, and didn't spend much time with the recruiters and the various companies that came onto campus. I ended up playing for another year after school. It was a great way to spend my first year out of school, and it actually allowed me some time to really reflect on what I wanted to do, and it gave me some time to think. And a lot of my friends had moved to New York or Boston and were getting these exciting jobs. And I started to think about that, wrote letters to various organizations, communicated with my friends, and when I came back from Scotland, I ended up sleeping on people's couches and interviewing until I found a job.

[00:03:10] Justin Abelow It's so interesting. Someone once said that no interesting lives, certainly no interesting careers, are linear, and the beginning of your career wasn't. And I think, my suspicion is, has informed a lot of the things that make you extraordinary at what you are, came from that nonlinear aspect. Almost every private equity guy I know thinks he should have been a professional athlete, but it's actually a pretty small list of people who were. I'm a little curious what skills you developed in that one year that you think served you in good stead later at LaSalle and at First Boston.

[00:03:46] Eric Bommer I think it's important for people to, and especially young people, to be put into environments where they're uncomfortable. Going to a new place, having to prove yourself. I didn't get into it, but I actually started off with a team in London. There's a bit of a musical chairs game that happens with the import players in the U.K. And so, I had to, I caught on with my second team over there. And you get tested, and you have to learn to deal with different people in an entirely different environment. I think you learn some good life lessons from putting yourself into a situation where it's not comfortable.

[00:04:24] Justin Abelow I sometimes see in the candidates today that we interview for these jobs are in some ways so much better than we were, so much better prepared, and they've been sort of sharpened to a fine point and polished. I think they sometimes haven't had that experience. Then again, they've probably spent around 12 hours rehearsing the answer to the question, so maybe it all comes out in the wash.

[00:04:46] Eric Bommer I think the people entering the workforce today, I think that the path is too linear. I have a good friend who was giving me a hard time one night, who said, “Eric, I know a lot of people that took an extra year in high school,” which I did when I went to boarding school. And he said, “I knew a lot of people that had a starter job before they got their first job. And I know a lot of people that took an extra year after college and did a gap year, but you did all three of those things.”

[00:05:11] Justin Abelow How did the Sentinel opportunity emerge?

[00:05:16] Eric Bommer That's kind of a funny story. So, I met John McCormack, who is the co-founder of Sentinel. It was basically a party for one of my colleagues at the private equity firm where I worked. And they had worked together at Coopers the years prior. And I ran into John, and John knew that we had an investment in a furniture business, which I had spent a lot of time working on. And John and David Lobel, the founder of Sentinel, were looking at a furniture business themselves. And so, John approached me and had lots of questions about the furniture industry, and started to explain this deal that he and David were looking at and wanted to get my view. And the short answer is, I told them I thought it sounded like a terrible investment and something that they shouldn't do. The end of the conversation, John said, “Hey, would you mind coming over to our office and maybe spending some time with me and David and sharing your views?” I think we were in an environment where we couldn't really have a deep discussion. And I said, “Sure, I'd be happy to.” I went over to their office, I don't know if it was a week later, and sat down with the two of them, and we discussed the deal in depth and I shared with them the concerns that I had about the investment that they were looking at, just based on the experience that we were having with ours. At the end of the conversation, we were saying goodbye, and David Lobel said to me, he said, “Eric, John and I just started this firm about a year ago, and we had always envisioned that we were going to hire a third partner. Maybe we should be thinking about hiring somebody like you. Somebody who's younger, somebody who can model, can run the numbers, can dig in and do this type of work. Is that something that would be of interest to you? What are you thinking?” And I said, “The timing's kind of interesting because I've been at my firm for almost two years. I'm trying to figure out if I should go back to business school. I'm trying to figure out what I should do next. Sure, I'd be happy to talk to you guys.” Three months later, I joined Sentinel, and that was 29 years ago.

[00:07:31] Justin Abelow And they did, of course, hire a third partner. They just did it with a little bit of a delay. So you've been there from 1997 as Sentinel has been built up from. And I think I remember re-meeting you, because of course we'd known each other in school, and David, and having lunch in the PaineWebber executive dining room in what must've been early 1998. And I remember being impressed at the story and what you were doing and how much you cared about helping companies in the middle market. But I've watched, since then, you grow this firm from being a lower-middle-market firm that needed, always explaining an introduction, oh, this is who they are, to being today, I think one of the great bellwether firms in the middle market and a real leader in the space. You've been there for all of that and its just shy of a year ago now that you were named Co-Managing Partner and part of the sort of senior plan for the future of the firm. And as you think about this new role, as you think about what leadership of the firm will look like, you have a challenge, I think, which is you'll have to fix something that ain't broken and a firm that I think works pretty well. How do you think about balancing as a leader, continuity, and making sure you've ensured the through lines of what's made the firm a success with new initiatives and evolution to help continue to grow the firm?

[00:08:56] Eric Bommer That's a great question.

[00:08:58] Justin Abelow I wrote that one down in advance.

[00:09:01] Eric Bommer Obviously, number one is to do no harm. But what I will say about our firm is that one of the reasons that we have been successful is that we're incredibly collaborative. There is not a decision of consequence that has ever been made at this firm that didn't have all of the partners involved in the decision. And most of the time, the entire firm is involved in key decisions. So, there is an incredible amount of transparency here. Things happen because everybody is on board. And we have so many great people here and so many talented people here. And whenever we make a decision, we are tapping into kind of the collective reasoning and intelligence and experience of the entire firm. And it allows us to make good decisions.

[00:09:51] Justin Abelow Let me pause you there for a moment and tell you my favorite question to ask a private equity firm as I get to know them. I've asked you this question several times over the years. I ask it periodically in case the answer changes. I say, how does your investment committee work? And it's a very simple thing, and there's a lot more variance than you might think between firms, and it really goes to the root of what you're talking about, which is how the decision-making process is sort of ingrained in the firm. To the extent that it doesn't reveal trade secrets, how does your investment committee work?

[00:10:29] Eric Bommer I think we're unique. Our investment committee is done in open forum in our Monday meeting. So, our investment committee is really an iterative process throughout the life of evaluating an investment. So, from the moment that we start to evaluate a new investment opportunity, deal team is formed and the firm is briefed, but the associates are in that meeting all the way up to the managing partner. And everybody has an opportunity to weigh in. And we encourage our young people to weigh in. And when we are making a decision to either, a go or no-go decision, all the associates are sitting in the room and they have had an opportunity to weigh in. So, we actually give everyone in the firm a veto right on a deal. So, every person in our firm has the power to basically kill a deal.

[00:11:28] Justin Abelow Has a non-partner ever executed a veto, right? That would be brave, I think.

[00:11:33] Eric Bommer It would be brave. In practice, it doesn't happen that way. But what does happen is people that have serious reservations, no matter what level they are, they are encouraged to express those reservations and they do so. And it happens throughout the process. We don't find ourselves in a situation where we get to the very end of a deal, and we're surprised that we didn't do it. Because there is so much communication and so much dialogue happening, and so much shared thought from the entire organization before we get to the end. So, by the time we get to the end of the deal, we are a very reliable counterparty. Because it's been fully vetted by the entire firm, and there isn't a committee that it has to go to that isn't fully aware of all the issues in the deal.

[00:12:25] Justin Abelow And that, as you know, in the market in the last couple of years, has become a bigger and bigger issue as there's a sense in the market that some firms have developed a disconnect between what line partners want to do and what the IC wants to do. I think that you do get that sense in the market with some players. It's nice to see that you guys have thought through that. But I interrupted. So, you have this culture at Sentinel that I think is unusual, and that's been a big part of the firm's success. You will continue to nurture that. What are some of the things that, five years from now, when we reconvene for the 2.0 on this conversation, and what will we look back and say has changed at Sentinel over those five years?

[00:13:13] Eric Bommer Let me first start out by what will not have changed. Our culture will be the same. We all check our egos at the door every morning. We have a great appreciation for what we don't know. We work very hard. We have a saying at our firm that good business is only good business if you can do it with the same person twice. And that influences how we conduct ourselves in everything that we do. Whether that's internally, externally, with management teams, with advisors, with anybody that we work with. That's served us well. And we will continue to have a very transparent organization where everybody counts and everybody's opinion counts. What will change, through the life of our firm, we have a DNA here where, of continuous improvement where we're constantly trying to do things better, you know, every year. Things that we are more focused on, right now, is elevating our value creation game.

[00:14:13] Justin Abelow As the industry continues to mature, private equity is lots of different things. It's an asset class or a transaction type, at what level it's an industry. When industries mature, right, things happen in those industries. Margins compress, competitive structures change. I mean, things happen to maturing industries. And one of the ways in which the stronger players are differentiating themselves is by enhancing their value creation capabilities to mitigate those issues. Where have you found, maybe you could tell us a war story or two about value creation, where you found levers that make sense to pull. Where you've made a difference.

[00:14:59] Eric Bommer Our management teams are the ones that are doing the hard work on the front line and are creating the value. We want to provide them with as much, as many resources as they want and need, and do whatever we can to help them be successful and realize their wildest dreams with their business. So, the areas that we have spent the most time on is trying to figure out how to grow earnings. And the best way to grow earning is getting revenue growth. Where we're spending time with our teams is trying to bring resources to bear that can help them figure out how to grow the top line. And whether that's entering new markets, through new product development, through new business lines, pulling the price lever, if it's available, those are areas that we're spending. That's the most valuable growth, is top- and bottom-line growth. And that's the way you're going to increase equity value.

[00:16:03] Justin Abelow This is, to me, one of the most interesting things about private equity that people who don't study private equity, like I do or live it like you do, they don't often understand. People assume that it's like a bunch of guys with cufflinks, and when they invest in businesses, they're probably playing a lot of financial games, and they're probably really good at margin enhancement, but they probably aren't good at revenue growth. And when you look at what the industry has done, it's actually kind of, it’s actually sort of been the opposite. It turns out that the industry does okay with things like margin, but where as an industry it's succeeded is in fact accelerating revenue, which revenue growth is very interesting to me.

[00:16:44] Eric Bommer There's only a few levers to create value, Justin. I mean, you can grow your earnings, you can pay down your debt, and you can sell at a higher multiple. That's kind of your option set.

[00:16:55] Justin Abelow There are a lot of roads to take to do those basic things.

[00:16:58] Eric Bommer Correct, but all the value is going to come out of one of those three levers. And we're not living in a time right now where you can expect to get a lot of, a lot through debt reduction, especially in this interest rate environment. The multiple expansion is a challenging one. We have, with our strategy, we have continued to be able to get some multiple expansion, but that's not something that you can count on for a lot of upside.

[00:17:27] Justin Abelow Do you model it often in investment cases?

[00:17:30] Eric Bommer We tend not to model that out. We tend not to model that out.

[00:17:34] Justin Abelow And how do you think about organic versus inorganic leavers? Finance guys, hammers, think problems are nails. We often like to acquire things and you guys have certainly had investments where acquisitions have been an important part of growth. How do you think about organic versus inorganic?

[00:17:52] Eric Bommer It really depends on the business. We're not going to do acquisitions with a portfolio company just for the sake of bulking it up. You can get into a lot of trouble that way. Growth through acquisition is a phenomenal lever when it is paired with strategy. So, if that acquisition has real strategic value and makes strategic sense, then acquisitions are a beautiful thing. But when you are complicating a business and having to squint to justify why an acquisition fits in the platform, it's probably something that you should avoid. Because we are stewards of these businesses for a period of time. So, our average hold is about five years. So, we are stewards of that business for five years of its life. And our job is to help that business get to a better place than it is when we bought it.

[00:18:57] Justin Abelow Interesting. You're describing a process, I think, a strategic process, that I think is pretty bespoke. I think you were looking at each company differently. You're thinking about it, yes, a certain number of basic levers, but a lot of different ways to kind of grab those levers and pull, and you're customizing. How much is there as a firm like yours that's now decades old, that has a lot of institutional memory and muscle memory, how much is there really a playbook that involves pattern recognition versus, I'm not even sure this is a sensible question or that I'm asking it sensibly, versus an artisanal, bespoke, every deal is different process, is there, how much is there a playbook?

[00:19:45] Eric Bommer That's a great question. There are certain things that are common across businesses. So, there's certain common problems that businesses have around financial reporting and what types of KPIs should we be looking at to determine whether the business is on track or off track. But when it does come to real strategic questions, it is a lot more, I think it is a lot more bespoke. You can't just run, you certainly can't run the same playbook across your portfolio. We have a very collaborative relationship with our management teams. We have a great deal of respect for what we don't know. Our management teams have forgotten more than we're ever going to know about their business, and we know that. And we approach the relationship that way, and I think they appreciate it. And they know that we are people that have quite a bit of experience investing in businesses that have had success, and we just might be able to help them. Sometimes our ideas aren't so great, but the key thing is it's collaborative, and we end up iterating into a good place.

[00:20:50] Justin Abelow Eric, you've talked about your management teams and the partnership approach you take towards them. I know that you often think of that partnership as extending beyond even the pendency of a particular investment. And how do you think about long-term partnerships with your management teams?

[00:21:12] Eric Bommer We form very good relationships with our teams. We come to the table with a great deal of humility and a great deal of respect for what we don't know. We try to support them in every way that we can, and during this period of time, we end up developing real friendships with these management teams. They're people that we continue to keep in touch with long after we've exited the scene. And two data points on that, just to maybe hammer the point home are, when we raise a new fund, we extend the opportunity for former executives to invest in the fund. And we don't extend it to current executives because that's not really fair to ask a current executive to invest in your fund while they're technically reporting to you. It puts them in an awkward situation. After there's been an exit and they're free agents and we're onto our next fund, we'll extend the opportunities for them to invest in our fund. And in our last fund, we had over 50 executives, over 50 former executives invested in our fund. And they do this on their own free will. And it was incredibly gratifying because it's kind of a real tangible thing to point to. They don't need to do that. And we now work for them. So we report to them, and we take it very seriously that they've entrusted us to look after their capital and to invest it into businesses that are similar to ones that they ran.

[00:22:44] Justin Abelow Do they ever provide advice, unsolicited, or solicited on the investments?

[00:22:48] Eric Bommer Absolutely, absolutely. And so it's two things. And the second point I was going to make is, so this group of former executives is just a phenomenal resource for us as we go about our business. Deal referrals, talent referrals, just general advice. And the other thing is that if you look at our operating partner program today, every single one of our current operating partners was a former executive at one of our companies. And so, the people that are helping us look after our portfolio are people that, at one point in their career, sat in the seat that our management team sits in now. So, they come to the table with a lot of credibility because they've been in that seat before and they've had success.

[00:23:37] Justin Abelow One of the things that I think has happened is, clearly, there's been a maturation from generalists to specialists over time. I've never really thought of you guys as a generalist firm, by the way. I thought of you as a multi-specialist firm, right, which is different. How do you think about that? And I think your weight in the sectors has changed materially over time. There was a time when I thought of you a long time ago as primarily a consumer firm. And that's certainly, well, that's a good industry vertical for you today. That's not true anymore that you're just that, right? You're a lot more than that today. How do the industry groups learn from each other, and how are they sort of cross-collateralized? Will there be more over time? And what do you think the generalist model still exists, barely, mainly in the very lower middle market? I'd be curious what you expect the future of the generalist, the true generalist model, is. Couple different questions.

[00:24:38] Eric Bommer I like the fact that you consider us specialists. I think that's a good description. What we look for are companies that occupy leadership positions in their respective markets. And furthermore, they are critical players in their industry or ecosystem. So, we are trying to find businesses that, if they were to disappear tomorrow, it would be a problem for that market that they serve. That's the commonality across the businesses. And I think a lot of people have thought of us having a consumer bend, just because the consumer businesses that we've invested in over time are recognizable. And if you go to our website and click on a bunch of logos, the industrial logos and the business services logos don't mean much to people that don't know those companies, but all of the consumer ones stand out. And frankly, if you look at it, industrials has been our largest category over the life of our firm. It just has. But the consumer names are the ones that people remember when they come to our website. I do think that's not uncommon for people to associate the consumer deals with us. But we have spent most of our time in industrials, and then consumer and business services are two and three, and then healthcare services is kind of our fourth sector. Those are the four sectors where we've played. And the way that we staff ourselves internally comes back to our culture, is that our junior people, all the way up through the principal level, they don't specialize. So you can have an associate who's working on a consumer deal, who's also working on healthcare deal, who's always working on an industrial deal. And people tend to specialize as they become partners. So I now spend my time mostly in industrials. I do some business services. And I will be involved in consumer businesses if there's a product involved that, and it kind of behaves a bit like a manufacturing company where there's product and a supply chain that may be manufacturing it. That's where I have kind of gravitated to over time. The benefit of having our young people work across these verticals is they get experience. And then when we're sitting in a room and we're discussing the deal, you've got a room full of people that have experience in all these sectors. What can be very dangerous in private equity is when you have experts sitting in a room that can't be challenged.

[00:27:15] Justin Abelow Tell us a little more about how you think about human development inside your firm. I've had a couple analysts who've worked for us here at Houlihan go work for you, and they've described, I think, a very positive and supportive culture. I think someone once told me, it was like, you probably would not want to have this as the headline of your brochure, but I think someone said it's like being in the locker room of a winning team, and that everyone's supportive, everyone feels that they're pulling the same oar, and everyone knows that they're succeeding together and described it as a positive place. How do you think about development and developing those partners? Besides that cross-staffing, how do you think about making sure they have the skills to, how do you make sure an incoming associate can become a partner?

[00:28:05] Eric Bommer So, we give our associates a lot of rope. So first, they have to demonstrate that they can do reliable work that we can count on. So that's the first step. Once they've demonstrated that we can count on their work, there really is no limit to what they can do. We're going to give people the opportunity to move very quickly through the organization if they demonstrate that they can work at the next level, then they're going to be able to get to the next level. We only have, there's only so many spots here. We can't keep everybody. Like, we hire five associates a year. We can't collect people. So, we do have a program here where, it's generally a two-year program for our associates, and, but some of those associates, it's a very small percentage, will actually stay on. But the operating plan is that they're going to go back to business school or do something else after they fulfill their program here. But some do make it, can keep moving up the organization, and our organization is filled with people that started here as an associate. I think one of the things we offer, which is differentiated, as I mentioned, all of our associates are sitting in our investment committee meeting every week. If you work here as an associate, you are going to be exposed to everything. We bring the associates into every meeting and all the key meetings, all the key decisions, the associates have a seat at the table.

[00:29:35] Justin Abelow I look at my own partners, I have great partners here who I see at their desk doing their work alone, but my very best partners always have two or three youngsters in their office taking notes when they're on phone calls. That, frankly, is the difference between the very good and the really excellent that they're going through that exercise with their team, and making sure their team learns what they know. Totally agree. It's a very special thing.

[00:30:05] Eric Bommer Absolutely. It is critical.

[00:30:06] Justin Abelow Let's do two more things today before we wrap up. I'd be curious to hear, to move away from how you think about building and managing the institution to what you see in the market and maybe what your predictions are for 2026. Always hard to look 12 months ahead in a crystal ball, but what would you assume we might see this year?

[00:30:32] Eric Bommer I will say that if I look across our portfolio, I would say that the performance of our portfolio in the last quarter was better than it was in the earlier part of the year. So, I think we're seeing a pickup in company health and momentum, which is always a very positive sign for markets. But that's a very small sample set. That's 24 companies. The other thing that I would say is that our, we track NDAs that are coming in. How many NDAs do we have? How many books do we have? And that is building. So, all of those metrics are up. I think interest rates seem to be stable, barring some external event. I think this should be a better year than last year on the M&A front.

[00:31:23] Justin Abelow Which was not, by the way, despite the fact that it felt like a disappointment to people, which was not a bad year. The last year was actually a reasonably good year. Didn't feel that way.

[00:31:34] Eric Bommer I enter this year optimistic that this is going to be a positive year. Do I think it's going to be a rip-roaring year? No. I think we're going to see some real momentum in middle-market M&A this year, that more, some more positive momentum.

[00:31:50] Justin Abelow I'm inclined to agree. How about different places in the capital structure? Obviously, the debt market is very robust for borrowers today. I think it's a pretty good market. You guys have thought about structured equity as opposed to traditional control buyouts. How do you think about that strategy and how that strategy might play out in this environment, and the environments that we can reasonably expect in the coming years?

[00:32:19] Eric Bommer Our flagship business is our control equity business. So, we do have a capital solutions business that supports our flagship business as well as third-party deals. And those deals have mostly been in deals with other sponsors where we bring to the table some experience or an angle that can be helpful. And I think we'll continue to do that. And I think there's always a need for junior capital or customized solutions that are equity-like or mezz-like and I think there's going to be an opportunity there, but I think we're going to continue to have a nice business there.

[00:33:05] Justin Abelow My own suspicion is that it depends a little bit on where you are in the size spectrum. I think that there are structural issues at the very upper end of the middle market that are going to impel a lot more of that in that space. But I think it's going to look, that opportunity will be sized differently depending on where you are on the size spectrum, I think.

[00:33:29] Justin Abelow And now it's time for your quickfire questions! What was the last concert you attended?

[00:33:37] Eric Bommer The last concert I attended was Zach Bryan.

[00:33:40] Justin Abelow Early mornings or late nights. Which are you?

[00:33:42] Eric Bommer Both.

[00:33:43] Justin Abelow As someone who once had to negotiate an engagement letter with you at, I think it was like 1:45 a.m., I'm inclined to believe you. What is the best career? And by the way, if there are winners in negotiations, I did not win that negotiation. What's the best career advice you have ever received?

[00:34:07] Eric Bommer So the best career advice I've ever received is actually what I would say just is the best life advice, which is just treat other people the way that you would like to be treated. And you would be surprised what happens over a long period of time in life when you do that. The world gets smaller and smaller as you get older, and you see the same people. You're going to be thankful that you treated them well. And it's a much more pleasant way to go through life.

[00:34:40] Justin Abelow I think I've given similar advice to my own children. So, I wanted to thank you for spending the time with us, for sharing your insight, particularly into what makes Sentinel special and what we can and should expect from Sentinel going forward, but also your views on the market. And I very much appreciate your insight. I hope that others find them as valuable as I do. Thank you.

[00:35:08] Eric Bommer Well, thank you, Justin. I enjoyed spending time with you, as always.

[00:35:15] Justin Abelow In reflecting on this conversation with Eric Bommer, I'm struck by how some very simple elements of character, of personal philosophy, inform not just how one constructs his or her own career, but also how one builds institutions to reflect those values, and how those institutions in turn impact marketplace behaviors. Eric as an individual and Sentinel as a firm always take pains to stress the collaborative nature of their undertaking. I think we heard that very clearly today. This affects how the partners at Sentinel work together, how they work with their management teams, and how they develop junior talent, but it sometimes produces what seem like counterintuitive results. In an industry notable for being expertise-oriented and data-driven, almost to the point of hyper-rationality, I was particularly struck by Eric's warning about careless deferral to expertise. He said, “What can be very dangerous in private equity is when you have experts sitting in a room that can't be challenged.” Can it be that what's most valuable in a private equity investor isn't knowledge after all, but wisdom? Thank you for listening to Capital Revolution. For more insights, visit us at HL.com. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving the show a rating and review on your podcast platform of choice.